Speaker 1 00:00:02 You are listening to the realestate podcast.ca, brought to you by jnc Toronto Realestate Group.
Speaker 2 00:00:14 Hello and welcome everybody, once again to the realestate podcast.ca. My name is John John Paulson, along with Cheryl Kelwin and Nicole Norton. We are the j and c Toronto Real Estate Group, and between the three of us, we make one fully competent human being. <laugh>
Speaker 3 00:00:31 <laugh>. True.
Speaker 2 00:00:32 We talk about that all the time. We all have our skill sets. If you combine us together, we're one superhuman.
Speaker 4 00:00:38 We're a super team. Yay,
Speaker 3 00:00:41 <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:00:41 We started the Real Estate Podcast to share our experiences as Toronto Realtors. Uh, the good, the bad, the ugly. Our goal here is to educate and entertain. This podcast is for anyone that is interested in real estate from the general public and investors, enthusiasts, realtors, landlords, tenants. We are real estate for the masses. Little something for everyone we like to think. And uh, episode number two is a contentious subject. Uh, it is called, it's not a bidding war because whenever I hear someone say, oh, are they priced for a bidding war? Or even realtors saying, oh my, there's a real bidding war on this property. It's
Speaker 4 00:01:18 Not a brand, it's not a bidding war
Speaker 3 00:01:21 <laugh>, it's,
Speaker 2 00:01:22 It's also known as, uh, holding offers, offer dates, holding back offers, and, uh, it's very confusing. Um, what we're gonna try to do today is explain in as clear as manner as possible the holding offers strategy. Uh, this is gonna start with a basic explanation of what that is, and then we're gonna go a little more in depth explaining this strategy. And that's what it is. Yes. A strategy from both a buyer's and seller's perspective. And then we're gonna dive deep in with some insights, including a few different scenarios. Uh, but before we dive deeper into it, here's our disclaimer. The views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of any entities they represent. Alright, now that we've got that outta the rate, ladies, are you ready? Ready,
Speaker 4 00:02:10 Ready. Serious topic today.
Speaker 2 00:02:12 Serious topic. We won't wanna be too serious.
Speaker 4 00:02:14 I know we're not generally overly serious people. No, but this is a serious topic.
Speaker 2 00:02:19 It is. It's uh, what we wanna do is boil it down. Yeah. So let's try to explain this in a
Speaker 4 00:02:24 Nutshell. It get easily digestible
Speaker 2 00:02:26 In a nutshell. Holding offers is when a property has an offer date, when offers, if any, are reviewed by the seller, the property usually also has a list price that is lower than perceived market value. It's one of those, is this price too good to be true? Um, this price is not usually what a buyer can buy the property at, and it is not usually a price that the seller is willing to accept. Holding offers is one of two pricing strategies, the other being known as offers. Anytime. Nicole, can you explain to me what offers time is?
Speaker 4 00:03:01 I can, so offers anytime is when you can make an offer. <laugh>, anytime. <laugh>,
Speaker 2 00:03:06 You're kidding me. Isn't that simple?
Speaker 4 00:03:08 <laugh>, anytime you like, anytime really offers anytime. That makes sense.
Speaker 2 00:03:11 It's really that simple.
Speaker 4 00:03:12 Yes. Can
Speaker 5 00:03:12 I also say that we're saying this is called holding offers and offers anytime, but this is realtor talk, right. This is how we all speak to each other. Yeah.
Speaker 4 00:03:20 Slang jargon, if you will. Right.
Speaker 2 00:03:21 And we did make a point of wanting to be able to use terminology that is for the greater public. So that's why we are really explaining it in minutiae in a way that everyone can understand. Yes. Alright. We sometimes call the list price a marketing price. Yep. Now this price could be, and we say this all the time, could be a, could be a dollar.
Speaker 5 00:03:41 And we tell our buyer clients look at it like it's priced at a dollar. We'll figure out what the perceived market value is.
Speaker 2 00:03:48 Yeah. It's tough, especially when buyers have a hard budget limit and they see all these properties coming up in their budget when we know these are not gonna sell in their budget. No.
Speaker 4 00:03:58 And it's complicated and confusing for them. Yeah. To understand this,
Speaker 2 00:04:01 Coming back to the title of our podcast, it's not a bidding war. It is not a bidding war because that implies that the people that are offering on the property know what the competing offer amounts are. That is not the case.
Speaker 4 00:04:15 Like an auction. Exactly. That, that would be like an auction,
Speaker 2 00:04:17 Right? Yeah. Like where somebody sits down against all the people competing for the same property and they shout out numbers and it's like, oh, well I know this person has bid this much, I'm gonna bid $150 more. Or in the case of a property 5,000 more, 10,000 more. A hundred thousand more. John,
Speaker 5 00:04:32 You used to be an auctioneer. Can you please auction for
Speaker 2 00:04:35 Us? I did. Okay. Let's say we have a beautiful prime semi detached in leslieville with an, uh, estimated retail price or a perceived market value of $1.5 million. We're not gonna start at 1.5 million, we're gonna start at 9 99. Who gimme a 9 9 9 990 9,000? I have looking for 1.1 million. You gimme
Speaker 4 00:04:51 1 1 1 1 5 7 6 2.
Speaker 2 00:04:53 1.1 5 7 5 6 2 is a bit. Thank you. One five. One five. I got one five right Up to one five.
Speaker 4 00:04:59 No messing around
Speaker 2 00:05:00 Anymore for anymore. Do I see one six? Anyone? One
Speaker 4 00:05:03 Five mean I also want one five. That's, that's sort of the market value. It doesn't,
Speaker 5 00:05:06 I don't wanna pay more. No,
Speaker 2 00:05:08 It doesn't work like that. Wouldn't it be fun if it is? There are.
Speaker 5 00:05:10 But isn't that interesting that we just had that little bidding war? Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:05:14 <laugh>. So that's a bidding war, right? That's not what happens
Speaker 5 00:05:17 And No, not at all.
Speaker 4 00:05:19 Not at all.
Speaker 2 00:05:20 Uh, it's actually a blind bidding process in Ontario and uh, the only thing that is disclosed is the number of offers.
Speaker 5 00:05:27 And that must be disclosed, correct?
Speaker 2 00:05:29 Yeah. As a matter of fact, uh, none of the other considerations. And when we talk about considerations, it's other parts of the offer, the price, the closing date, if there are any conditions. Uh, none of those are disclosed to any interested offers. Only the number of offers that exist. So, um, it's blind. So that is essentially how it works here in Ontario. So it's not a bidding war. We know this is confusing. Um, there's no way for the general public to see if there is an offer date on the listing. Um, this information is in the brokerage remarks of a listing, which is not forward facing to the public. It's only accessible to a realtor that is logged into the m l s system.
Speaker 4 00:06:10 Henceforth, if you are not working with a realtor, you do not know whether the list price that you see is a marketing price intended to have you just look at the house or if it's is the offers anytime, buy it now, possibly price. And
Speaker 5 00:06:25 Sometimes a savvy buyer might see something that looks like a million dollar house and it's priced at 7 99. So they make the assumption that they're holding offers if they understand that that is the strategy. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:06:35 Do, do ladies think that there should be a field potentially in the m l s system that is forward facing to the public? Like if people are shopping on realtor.ca or House Sigma, just like number of bedrooms there's holding offers, check yes or no because then they may be able to understand that, oh, there's an offer date.
Speaker 5 00:06:53 Yeah. I don't, I don't think that would be any more helpful because there's no rhyme or reason sometimes to why the price is the price and where the market value lands. It's not like realtors priced $200,000 under every time. So I think if anything it'll confuse people even further.
Speaker 4 00:07:08 And we saw people trying to do this. We saw it, you know, they would put in the picture, right? They'd have graphics in their pictures saying offers any time trying to promote this is what we would sell this home for.
Speaker 2 00:07:19 Yeah. But I don't think the public even got that offers any time thing. It's like, well, aren't isn't every property that's right. Offers any time. What does this mean? So it's almost like giving too much information to someone that doesn't have the context or, or all
Speaker 5 00:07:31 That context and nuance. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I vote against it. I mean, you need a realtor, the expert to help you anyways. So I don't think it makes a difference. I mean, sometimes it's helpful if someone knows they have time to go see the house and it won't sell before they get a chance to see it. Yes.
Speaker 4 00:07:47 Which is actually quite a positive of holding offers, right? Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:07:51 Yeah. Well it just, the, the whole scenario of pricing that much lower in many cases, it's just designed to be like, oh my gosh, what a great price.
Speaker 5 00:08:00 I maybe can afford it. <laugh>. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:08:02 And there's, there's, especially in a very tough and competitive market like Toronto, uh, where there's usually competing offers on good properties. It's just like a hope and a prayer price where buyers are like, oh my God, maybe I have a chance. But,
Speaker 5 00:08:12 Or maybe they're shopping at the top of their budget and it's holding offers, but it's borderline. Yeah. And so it's, it ends up being a just a, just try price. Right? But you've said to us many times before, John, that this works best in a seller's market. Absolutely. The strategy.
Speaker 2 00:08:27 So one of the biggest pieces here is figuring out exactly what market value is, um, working with buyers. Um, we're gonna talk about the two different scenarios later in the podcast. Uh, the holding offer strategy from a buyer's perspective and from a seller's perspective. Um, the biggest piece is, is to find out what that perceived market value is. I'm gonna get into the that a little bit more in depth shortly. Um, so what is it, how do we come up with it and why do we call it perceived? Uh, this has been such a confusing strategy for our buyer clients that Cheryl and I discussed a couple years ago. We had a, we had a little series of videos we were gonna do multiple of 'em called Real Life Real Estate And uh, we actually did an explainer video, uh, where we are animated characters, <laugh>, and uh, we go kind of in depth into the holding offer strategy and also what is market value. Yeah. Um, so if you get a chance, uh, the video is linked in the description. Um, you get to watch Sher and I a
Speaker 5 00:09:28 Fun six minutes, a
Speaker 4 00:09:29 Fun six minute video, and we use it quite a bit. I know you guys did it, you know, made it for fun and to help a few clients many years later. I used it today, sent it to a client today. It's a very concise five minutes on what is going on out
Speaker 2 00:09:41 There. Yeah. And we don't cover absolutely everything, but it's like a
Speaker 5 00:09:45 General
Speaker 2 00:09:45 Idea holding offers one-on-one. Yeah. Polls notes, if you will. So let's talk about what is market value and how do we come up with it,
Speaker 5 00:09:52 John? I'm confused. Okay.
Speaker 2 00:09:53 Well you should be confused. <laugh>, Cheryl, Cheryl's,
Speaker 4 00:09:56 We should count how many times we said confused in this podcast. <laugh>, I feel like
Speaker 5 00:09:59 It's <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:10:00 Well, hopefully by the end of the, uh, podcast, most people will not be confused.
Speaker 5 00:10:06 That
Speaker 2 00:10:06 Big proverbial light bulb comes, uh, on but above everyone's head.
Speaker 5 00:10:11 Can you do that on the podcast?
Speaker 2 00:10:13 I can, I can. Dinging <laugh>. Um, so Cheryl is usually the one that does all the numbers for us in many cases. Yes. We, we look at, you know, comparables and we look at properties,
Speaker 5 00:10:23 But you know that I dig deeper. So you do what you need to do and then you're like, Cheryl,
Speaker 2 00:10:27 So explain to us <laugh>, uh, how do you come up with market value, Cheryl?
Speaker 5 00:10:30 Um, am I representing a buyer or a seller in this case or is it just in general?
Speaker 2 00:10:34 Just in general.
Speaker 5 00:10:35 So if I'm looking to see what a, let's say 9 99 property is gonna sell for, um, 'cause it might be one, one, it might be one three, it might be one five. I'll first take a look at that property and then everything that has sold comparable to that property in that neighborhood. And if though the properties that have sold in the neighborhood is similar, we can plus and minus, I can come up with a value based on that. So if the next door neighbor's house that's identical to this house has sold for one, one, I can say without a doubt that the perceived market value, if it's similar, is probably around that one, one plus or minus depending on little things like condition. And is the basement finished? Does it have a garage? Is a garage in good condition? Things like that.
Speaker 4 00:11:19 And it's rarely like in real estate school where uh, we can look and just find all completely comparable houses in the same condition, in the same neighborhood and easily ascertain this value.
Speaker 5 00:11:30 Yes. That was super easy. That never happens that way. <laugh>.
Speaker 4 00:11:32 I just want people to know our job. It's a little harder than that, but
Speaker 5 00:11:34 Yeah. Well, cookie cutter houses, so subdivisions it's a little bit easier because there are very often like five or six types of houses and you see them over and over again and then it's easy to plus and minus the levels of renovation. But in some places like Toronto where they're over a hundred year old homes, they've gone through multiple renovations, uh, they're different sizes on the same street. There might be completely different houses. Maybe nothing
Speaker 4 00:11:53 Has sold in the area. Yeah. In six to eight months.
Speaker 5 00:11:56 I mean, that's unlikely, but <laugh>, it's unlikely
Speaker 4 00:11:58 I do see it though or nothing about housing
Speaker 5 00:12:00 Type. Yeah. Yes, yes. Yeah. And then you have to go back some time and you have to plus and minus what the market condition was in that time. So
Speaker 2 00:12:07 Yeah. So there's a lot of moving pieces to figure it out. Was
Speaker 5 00:12:09 That the answer you were looking for? How confusing it is like <laugh> here, here I'm
Speaker 2 00:12:12 Gonna make it, I'm gonna it real simple. An example of market value. Let's say your next door neighbor's home is identical to yours and it sold last week for a million dollars. There's a good chance that yours is also worth $1 million at the same time. Hold
Speaker 5 00:12:25 On. Did I make this too complicated <laugh>? No,
Speaker 2 00:12:27 But it's all about boiling it down, right? Yeah. So it's great that you gave a lot of information there. Um, but,
Speaker 5 00:12:33 But very simply correct. Yeah. You're looking at the comparable houses to sell. And a very easy example is if your next door neighbor's house sold for X amount of dollars, there's a very good chance that that 7 99 is gonna sell for a million. Yeah. So I'm sure
Speaker 4 00:12:45 If you're new to the buying and selling real new to the buying and selling of the real estate <laugh>, you would ask, well if this person's neighbor, if if this neighborhood house sold for $1 million, then why the following week is the listing agent going to list that house at 7, 9, 9
Speaker 5 00:13:02 Because they're hoping to get a little bit more than a million or they're trying to maximize the sale, or they're trying to sell very quickly. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:13:11 It goes back to our first bit of an explanation that price is, uh, kind of too good to be true. They're not willing to accept that a buyer cannot buy it at that price. It is simply a marketing price. And we'll talk about what it is designed to do a little bit later
Speaker 5 00:13:26 In the in podcast, if they do sell at that price, it's a fire sale and the rest of the street's gonna be very angry. <laugh> of course. <laugh>. Correct.
Speaker 2 00:13:34 Um, so there's a number of ways, easiest way to look at, uh, market value is look at recent comparable sales. I'm Cheryl I also know that sometimes you'll look at say what the property may have sold for four or five years ago and see what the market has done since then. Yeah. So
Speaker 5 00:13:48 I generally do when I'm, if you want me to get into it right now, I'll do comparables of the area, plus I'll look at what the market has done since they've purchased. I will look at different factors to come up with prices or market value. So that basically when you're talking to either your buyer or your seller, you have proof in multiple different directions to say this is around where the price should land. Yeah. Generally the prices all land in that same spot too, which is helpful to back up whatever point you're trying to make. Right.
Speaker 2 00:14:14 Got a little note here as well, that the whole 80 20 principle,
Speaker 5 00:14:17 My 80 20 principle. Yeah. There's, it's not the normal 80 20 No. There's a couple
Speaker 2 00:14:20 Of different, different 80 twenties. Yeah. Very
Speaker 5 00:14:22 Early on in our career, I realized that, you know, 'cause I'm a logical thinker, I'm a facts and figures girl. I like stats. So you can do statistics all day long, gather all the facts and the figure 80% of a price a market value price is gonna be those facts and figures. Yes. That next door neighbor's house sold for a million. Yes, you're the same and it's a million, but you can't factor in that 20% emotion. And maybe that seller wants one one, or maybe that buyer has been waiting for another house on the street to come up so they're willing to pay a little extra for the house. Or maybe when people are in competition, the emotions start running high and someone's willing to spend a little bit more. So that 20% emotion is unpredictable, which is why when someone's like, why did it only sell for this? Or why did it sell for that much more? Because we can't predict that emotional part.
Speaker 2 00:15:10 It's emotion. There's also timing, you know?
Speaker 5 00:15:12 Well that works into the emotion quantit,
Speaker 4 00:15:14 Quantitative and qualitative process.
Speaker 2 00:15:16 Yeah. I wanna touch really quickly as well on people that, uh, depend on some online resources, <laugh> themselves to try to figure out what market value might be. Uh, and let's talk about it. Let's talk about how Sigma, you know, a few years ago, shit, it's almost like
Speaker 5 00:15:30 A bad word. Oh God. I like how Sigma, I use how Sigma to quickly look up properties.
Speaker 2 00:15:34 Yeah. It's an easy way to look it up online on your phone, things like that. However, the House Sigma estimates are so wrong so often. And I'm talking like way off, off like 10% off.
Speaker 5 00:15:45 Yeah. And that's and down. Yeah. Way either
Speaker 2 00:15:47 Way. So the thing that House Signal looks at is the, the basic facts like about, about a home, like maybe number of bedrooms. Um, frontage is
Speaker 5 00:15:57 An algorithm.
Speaker 2 00:15:58 Exactly. Um, and what they don't take into account are literally changing market conditions, which can change week to week, month to month. They won't, uh, they, they can't show you what the neighbor's house looks into. It could be a hoarder. They don't look into what's across the street finished basement hoer finished based or
Speaker 5 00:16:13 Not, or something in Toronto, a Victorian Yeah. Might sell very differently than something that is not a Victorian, for whatever reason, that type of
Speaker 2 00:16:21 It could fifties build that's right next door to a Victorian sold for one one. And we all know that the Victorian's gonna sell for one five or 1 6 1 3 <laugh>. Yeah. Well, depending
Speaker 5 00:16:30 On the area. But in compare if it's two identical homes. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:16:32 Yeah. So for those of you shopping on House Sigma, take that House Sigma estimate with a massive grain of salt. We
Speaker 4 00:16:38 Have also discovered that part of this algorithm has to do with the list price. Yes.
Speaker 5 00:16:43 Yes.
Speaker 4 00:16:44 Yeah. So we've had a property for sale for a certain price and then we've done a price enhancement, if you will. And what, how Sigma says the house is worth it changes
Speaker 5 00:16:52 The amount
Speaker 4 00:16:53 By a lot changes the second that it sees that we now have a new list price, which as we're discussing today, is just a marketing price to begin with. Yeah.
Speaker 5 00:16:59 I'm so mad at how Sigma for doing that stuff. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:17:02 <laugh>. Okay. So now let's move on to our two different scenarios. Um, we're gonna talk about working with a buyer and holding offers from a buyer standpoint. And then we're gonna talk about working with a seller and, uh, using the holding out for strategy from a seller's point of view. Um, so Nicole, if you wanna walk us through, you work with a lot of buyers. What is I work with? What's process like typically? What's your first step?
Speaker 4 00:17:26 So the first thing that we're, you know, starting with someone new and, and it takes a while for our clients to really understand this process and understand what it is that we're talking about today, which is that the list price is simply a marketing price. It is not indicative of value. So what we'll generally say to our clients is take a look through these homes we've sent you and pick three or four, maybe five, and we're gonna go see a few, but why don't you send them over to me And, and I'm gonna take a look through these homes and let's see which one our offers anytime, which one is holding offers. If the home is holding offers, what is the actual perceived market value of the home? And we're gonna give a range, right? Because Yeah.
Speaker 5 00:18:02 So not actual just what it could probably land. That's where it would sell for.
Speaker 2 00:18:05 So would you say that the first step, uh, if, uh, someone brings a property to your attention is to see if, see
Speaker 5 00:18:12 If it has offer date, there's an offer
Speaker 4 00:18:13 Date to see if it has an offer date? Exactly. This is going to, uh, a help with our process. 'cause we're gonna know which day we will make the offer <laugh> versus the offers anytime. And which we can make an offer anytime and
Speaker 5 00:18:25 With an offers anytime. You probably wanna get in to see the property in a hotter sellers market as soon as possible, where as we discussed with an offer date, you may have that seven days to get in to see it. You may.
Speaker 4 00:18:35 That's correct. So we're gonna look through all of those. We're gonna go through the comparables. We're gonna find out what the value is. Now this takes us a fair bit of time. You know, Cheryl went through a very simple, um, analysis here, but it never works out. Simply. There's always, you know, yeah. One house is in a state sale, one house is beautiful, one house blew out some walls, and now there's only two bedrooms in there, <laugh>, the neighbor's got five. It it's not simple. Some things are worth more to some people than the others. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:19:00 And if I can just, uh, add a little something, would you say that pricing can vary significantly, uh, from a property to property basis? Uh, if it is holding offers? Because what we've all seen is that some listing agents will see what the perceived market value is and price it say 20% below that. Another agent might price, uh, very similar property at like 5% below that. Or
Speaker 5 00:19:24 Some people might price very similar to what the to market perceived market market value is and still hold offers, right?
Speaker 4 00:19:29 That's right. So it's not even cut and dry from a realtor's perspective. Now's not, we do a lot of work in several different areas. Sometimes we'll know a very busy listing agent and if they tend to be listing their properties quite significantly, hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars below perceived value, they
Speaker 5 00:19:44 Do it consistently. Yeah.
Speaker 4 00:19:45 In correctly. Yeah. Yeah. And so we can even use that as a little bit of a guide, but, uh, oftentimes not. Yeah. Oftentimes they're really the list price often. I don't even remember the list price. It's not because I'm bad at my job, it's because it doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. You know, people, what does this list to that? I have no idea. But anyway, this is, it's
Speaker 5 00:20:00 Gonna sell for one, one doesn't matter. Exactly. You
Speaker 2 00:20:02 Know what the house is worth kind of by looking at it, uh, seeing how many beds, uh, condition the property. Especially if you're shopping. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4 00:20:08 Yeah. That's right. What, what price tag did someone slap up on it? I I, I don't remember right now. Let's, let's use the pertinent information
Speaker 5 00:20:14 Now, Nicole, I know that John likes to ask you this. Um, would you communicate with the listing agent before going out to see a property?
Speaker 4 00:20:21 I would communicate with the listing agent. I actually really like communicating with the listing agents too. I've made many a good friend, um, and we're getting great information from these listing agents. What are their seller's expectations? Uh, hopefully has the property been busy? Um,
Speaker 5 00:20:35 How many offers are they expecting?
Speaker 4 00:20:37 How many offers are they expecting? What is the ideal closing date? Right. All sorts of information. Because if we have a buyer who requires 90 days and the seller is only going to accept 30, well, let's not even go look at this property guys. This is not gonna work. Let's, let's move on. So what we wanna do is generate some rapport with the listing agent and let them know that, you know, we're, we're working for a mutually beneficial end here. Right? We want a happy seller and a happy buyer. So we should be friends. This isn't really an adversarial negotiation. It
Speaker 2 00:21:05 Shouldn't be win-win, right?
Speaker 4 00:21:06 That's right. Win-win. We're trying to figure out what is going to work for both sides. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and um, and the listing agent can provide great insights and generally do want to, you know, work well with buyer's agents
Speaker 5 00:21:17 And listing agents wanna work with buyer's agents who want to work with them. Because even buyer's agents can be adversarial and standoffish. And a listing agent really does need communication from everybody. So yeah,
Speaker 2 00:21:28 You get feedback, uh, from our other agents on the other side that you are really easy to work with and thanks for helping bring this together. Um, I think that, you know, it's a misconception that there has to be a loser. You know, you, you want happy buyer, happy seller, and you know, you're negotiating. Believe it or not, even though as a buyer agent in a tough seller's market, when you're, you're up against maybe 10 other, uh, offers. You're negotiating by creating that rapport with the listing agent mm-hmm. <affirmative> by getting information from them that may be beneficial to you, knowing what you're gonna be putting in your offer. And Cheryl talks about this all the time with our sellers leaving no stone unturned for our sellers. We'll talk about that. But you're also doing the same thing with your buyers. If you're gonna be competing with 10, 12 other offers, how can you give your buyer a better chance than them? Um, obviously price is gonna be the biggest one, but there are other factors in there. And creating rapport can do that.
Speaker 4 00:22:17 That's right. And listing agents want to work with people that make their jobs easier. Yeah. So we make sure that we send in everything. And actually Cheryl taught me this. I mean, there's organized and then there's super duper organized. So much so that we are, uh, doing some listing agents work for them. And we're always doing that. We're trying to be easy to work with. We're trying to be, um, very respectful of their wishes in the holding offer strategy. Generally we will have a time that we are to register the offer as well as a time that the offers are to be submitted. We make sure that we, we, we listen to those instructions, right? Yeah. We wanna help the listing agent out, do everything in a timely manner. Have everything to them that they've asked for because it's,
Speaker 5 00:22:54 It's hard work on the other side as well. Yeah. I think you said super d duper
Speaker 4 00:22:59 SuperDuper. I can't even,
Speaker 5 00:23:01 I'm definitely a dragon. We're
Speaker 2 00:23:03 Gonna use that in the office.
Speaker 5 00:23:04 Take you too, aren't we? You had once said too, Nicole to me, that you like to lean heavy on any existing relationships that we have. 'cause we do a lot of business every year and we do cross the paths of the same realtors over and over again because there is a top percentage that do most of the deals in the areas we work. Um, how do you lean on the existing relationships?
Speaker 4 00:23:23 We say, oh hey <laugh>,
Speaker 5 00:23:27 Remember me? That's super easy, but hold on. But that's exactly it, right? You lean on these existing relationships that you may have created by being an easy realtor to work with in a previous, you know, offer.
Speaker 4 00:23:37 Yeah. And listing agents are remembering us because of that. You know, whether we see them again at the table, whether we see them at uh, real estate training events, people are remembering us because we are so, um, organized and
Speaker 2 00:23:49 Right. And we should be colleagues in many cases, not competitors. You know, uh, you know, obviously it's a very competitive market for being a realtor. Um, but you know, we're all working in the same fields, uh, and we, we actually are benefiting our buyers by having these good relationships with food listing agents. Agree. We find that that's very important. Let's say your buyer sends you over eight properties that they're interested in. 'cause that happens quite often. Um, what, what's your process there?
Speaker 4 00:24:14 We're gonna go through them all. We're gonna pick probably the top three or four that seem to be in their budget. In their budget and the best fit. Right? Right. Go through all the factors, figure out what, which properties can we probably afford? What's good for us to look at? And we are going to go and we are going to take a look at them always sooner than later because, um, Toronto <laugh>
Speaker 5 00:24:37 Things are very
Speaker 2 00:24:38 Fast. Alright. You talked a little bit about registering an offer on time. Um, so let's actually talk about the offer night and the offer night process. For anyone that doesn't know yet, maybe first time home buyer, um, how, what does that look like? Uh,
Speaker 4 00:24:52 So from a buyer perspective, and we'll go from a seller's perspective after, but from a buyer's perspective, we will know that we have a certain period in time when we are to register the offer, which is let them know, yes, we're bringing an offer and then there is a certain time when the offers are going to be presented. So let's,
Speaker 2 00:25:07 Usually not every listing agent put that in, but in the perfect world. Sure.
Speaker 4 00:25:11 Sure. So let's say for the sake of this, um, example that we must register our offers by five and they will be presented at 6:00 PM Um, so we want to make sure that we get in that registration at five. Uh, no, just as a little aside that most realtors are waiting till like 4 45 till the very end of the process, till we're getting to the very end,
Speaker 5 00:25:34 4 45, more like 4 54 <laugh>
Speaker 4 00:25:37 To put in, um, their registration. Because
Speaker 5 00:25:40 It makes a difference if there's one or two or three offers versus 15 offers. It's going to change what someone is going to offer or even if they're going to offer.
Speaker 2 00:25:48 And let's, for the layman out there, a registration of an offer doesn't mean you're actually submitting it yet. No, you're just stating that I will be submitting an offer. So, but you, you wait up until the 11th hour for, um, price. Right. And I think that, you know, if if there's one offer on the table, you're the only offer, uh, it's gonna be a very different offer that you submit than if there's 25. Right? That's
Speaker 4 00:26:10 Right. So we spoke about how when we're looking at the value, we have a range, right? And that's part of what's going to affect that range. You know, Toronto's housing market. Part of what keeps our prices so high is that we have high demand and low supply. So if we even boil that down to this single house, if we have one person putting in an offer, well there's kind of low demand for that house today. So we're gonna be on the low end of the range if we have 50 people offering on that house, well there is high demand and low supply of that one house tonight. So it is gonna go to the top end of that, of that spectrum of that pricing or over.
Speaker 5 00:26:42 Yeah. And if there's anyone on the cusp, so say it should sell somewhere around one one and your clients is hoping to put in 1.08, but there's 15 offers all of a sudden, you know, it's probably gonna sell for a little more than one one and it might not be worth it for them to add kindling to the fire. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:26:57 Yeah. We, we cover a lot of this in our buyer consultation when we're working with especially new clients, new buyers, that, uh, there's a number of different things involved on the offer date, of course. Uh, knowing how many offers you're up against is definitely one of them. What are some of the other things that we cover in our buyer consult, miss buyer agent?
Speaker 4 00:27:13 Oh, well the buyer's consult in itself is quite an extensive. Um, yeah.
Speaker 2 00:27:17 Well let's talk about the considerations. We talked about price and remember that if you're up against competing offers, all you know is that there the number of offers out there, you don't know any of the considerations. So price is one. What are other ways you can strengthen your offer?
Speaker 4 00:27:31 So other things that we're gonna be looking at is the closing date, which we briefly mentioned. That's when actually the money is going to be exchanged and you're gonna take possession of the home. Yep. Uh, we're gonna look at conditions, um, you know, home inspection, financing, finance, all of that. Uh, also a little bit, we're gonna talk about a letter, as you said, the no stone unturned, right? Yeah. One of the considerations for some sellers is who's buying the house, right? Yeah. They, they wanna have a nice, lovely family in there. And, um, I've had many a listing agent want to work with us because they realize that our buyers is this lovely family and therefore are working a little bit more closely with us to try to get that for their sellers. Their sellers would like to see somebody like that in there. Very
Speaker 5 00:28:10 Cool. And is this a good time for us to mention that letters do work? Yeah, absolutely. And we've seen it from the buyer's perspective and we've seen it from the seller's perspective when we had that one listing, to give you an anecdote that we had the second highest offer get chosen, that was a particularly busy listing and we had 29 offers, but she did not choose the highest offer, which was $4,000 more because she felt a connection to the letter that was written to her. Yeah. So it works. It doesn't work for everybody. No,
Speaker 2 00:28:37 But it, it, it can definitely be helpful.
Speaker 4 00:28:39 It is a consideration. Yeah. We
Speaker 2 00:28:40 Always usually can't hurt, let's put it that
Speaker 5 00:28:42 Way. And if somebody really doesn't care, the listing agent will say, don't include a letter. They don't care. It's, you know, it's an estate sale. They just want as much money as possible or whatnot. Excellent.
Speaker 2 00:28:52 Alright, back to our offer night. Um, so you've submitted your offer. Let's say there's 15 offers and you're one of them. What, what happens after, you know, presentation time? Registration time, let's say presenting at five. What are you doing? So
Speaker 4 00:29:05 We've waited till the 11th hour to register our offer, which actually I don't do if we're gonna offer
Speaker 5 00:29:09 Registering is sometimes Okay. 'cause you can rescind. Yeah, yeah. It's putting in your offer and actually sending it over to the listing agent. That's
Speaker 4 00:29:16 Right. And there's nuance to that too as to, you know, whether we're just gonna wait till the end or whether we feel comfortable just putting in our offer. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But we've submitted our offer and now we're gonna sit and we're gonna wait <laugh> and we're gonna know that some listing agents are, um, very organized like Cheryl, who has an incredible spreadsheet and can quickly, succinctly and easily move through the information and convey it to her seller. And there are some people, people that are gonna all of a sudden have 25 offers they didn't realize they were receiving. That's right. It's like an information salad in there. We don't know what's go, it's gonna take a while. Essentially we're gonna wait for the listing agent to get back to us. Um, as buyers agents, we're gonna make sure that our buyers know what's going on and if nothing is going on, we're going to continually tell them. Just so you know, we don't know what's going on yet. Yeah. Um, we're gonna wait to hear back and find out, you know, what the listing agent,
Speaker 5 00:30:08 I always say there's feedback, right? Yeah. Like you give the agents feedback because there's gonna be very often in a lot of offers, a lot of offers that come in close to the, the same price. So you wanna call everyone back and maybe give them some feedback. Like, your offer is really low and you know, thank you so much for your time and effort with we're
Speaker 2 00:30:25 Not gonna work, we not
Speaker 5 00:30:25 Working with you. So you're waiting for a call like that. Like do you have a chance in hell? Are you being given a chance to improve? Like what is the next steps? Or you just being like, thanks a lot, goodbye. Have a great night. That's right.
Speaker 2 00:30:36 Yeah. Let's talk about that chance to improve. We need to touch on that because these improvements that do occur, uh, with offer nights are what lead the public to believe and the media to believe that it's a bidding war. That these are bidding wars. Yeah. Okay.
Speaker 4 00:30:49 And it's not a bidding war.
Speaker 2 00:30:50 No. Because you don't know what you're up against.
Speaker 5 00:30:52 We have no idea. Sometimes,
Speaker 2 00:30:54 Yeah. Some listing agents may say send out an email saying it's one and done. Meaning,
Speaker 5 00:30:59 And, and it happens, right?
Speaker 2 00:30:59 Bring your best offer one and done. Other listing agents will be like, you will be gi there will be three rounds of improvements. Believe it or not, people have said that before I,
Speaker 5 00:31:06 And it's actually not that popular. Not especially in the Toronto market is not that popular.
Speaker 2 00:31:09 However, these things, uh, if a listing agent reaches out and says we're giving you a chance to improve, that's when you may increase your offer amount but or
Speaker 5 00:31:18 Change something in your offer. True
Speaker 2 00:31:19 Story change. One of the considerations take a condition out. So if you know you are, you
Speaker 5 00:31:23 Might already be the highest offer. Yeah.
Speaker 4 00:31:25 We do see that a lot. Some people pulling conditions when given a chance too, right? Yeah. Our clients, 'cause we generally set them up for success and make sure they're going in without conditions. But to sort of, I'm gonna tie up 'cause I think this is a good spot to go into now how it looked, how it's looking from the seller's perspective, but Right. It's not a bidding. More so from someone working with a buyer. We're not sitting there trying to figure out what other people are paying and can we pay a little bit more. We're sitting there with our buyers going over what is the value of the home, what do you feel comfortable offering for the home? And that's what we're gonna put in there. And if there's not a lot of offers, we're gonna go maybe on the lower end of what you're comfortable and if there's a lot of competition, we're gonna go on the higher end of what you're comfortable. But at no time are we trying to bid against the other people. Everybody is moving forward to give best offer that they
Speaker 5 00:32:09 Can. And some listing agents, and I think you're probably thinking about this too, while you say it might say, you know, you're in the top three so you know that you're close to the top and you can try and ask them if how far away you are from the top. But there's a very good chance that they won't really give you great guidance on it. So as you just said, it's about the client's comfortability. And John, you often will say about waking up the next morning, what do you say to our by our clients often?
Speaker 2 00:32:32 Yes. At what point and at what price? If you're not the successful offer, when you see the price published tomorrow, uh, are you gonna say, oh I would've paid that because that's the price that you should be going at if you're able to, if you have the means.
Speaker 5 00:32:46 Yes. That's right. It's not a bidding war. Let's be clear that this is the way that we communicate with our clients and how we run our business. We do know that there are lots of realtors who do very similar things, but there might be realtors out there that don't do any of this. So we can say this all of what we're saying right now. Yeah, that's true. But it doesn't necessarily mean that that's gonna be your experience with your realtor.
Speaker 2 00:33:06 Alright, so now let's move on to the other scenario which is working with the sellers. Cheryl, if you want to cover a little bit about how we'd approach this when working with a potential seller client.
Speaker 5 00:33:16 Right. So when we go in to meet with the seller and do our listing presentation, part of the presentation is about our process and what we offer. And part of it is a comparative market analysis. So similar to what Nicole does or explained about working with a buyer, you wanna look at all the comparable homes and come up with what perceived market value will be and present that to the client. Give them that range, tell 'em about the 80 20 rule. Um, and then give them the option of strategies. If we are going to say, Hey, you know, we're in a hot market, this strategy might work the best, or they have high expectations or whatever it might work, they need to get it sold quickly. We will suggest that holding offers strategy and explain to them that we want to list their house <laugh> for less than it's worth
Speaker 2 00:33:57 <laugh>. So basically we'll say, see all these other properties that have your property market value being about, you know, 1.3 million we want you to list at 8 99 or 9 99.
Speaker 5 00:34:07 And we have this conversation all the time with our clients. And the thing is, is you want to make sure you're educating your clients as to what the actual value is and showing them how this strategy works so that it is, they don't feel, they feel a little more confident Right. With what we're saying. Yes, it is a little bit of blind faith and they're gonna have to trust in our process. We can even show you like that it's worked meant multiple times and maybe it worked last week on the street over. Yeah. But there's still probably gonna be a little trepidation. So you just have to try to do your best to manage their fears and concerns. And I mean, I would never push somebody to use it, but most of the time we have, um, we've good conversations and then they feel comfortable trusting in us. But we always, always let them know that this is a plan A. So if this doesn't work, we do have a plan B in place as well.
Speaker 2 00:34:56 Yeah. The easy thing is when we show the $1.3 million home that they're like, oh, well if that's the most recent comparable, we're like, yeah. And they list it at 8 99. Right. So it helps when that happens, it definitely does help. Um,
Speaker 5 00:35:09 But we also will, we'll suggest sometimes to use this strategy in areas that it doesn't look like it's been used. So those ones are a little bit more difficult.
Speaker 2 00:35:16 Yes. And we've done it to great success Yes. Before as well. It's just a matter of the sellers having confidence in, in us and being able to show those, uh, statistics and how they work.
Speaker 5 00:35:24 Can I say like, we're talking like this is what every agent does, every listing agent does, this is what we deal with with every buyer. We have to deal with all this. But it really comes down to where your seller is comfortable, what they're looking to achieve, understanding what their lifestyle is because sometimes the holding offer strategy won't work for a specific seller just because of one of those things. Yeah. So it's really about understanding your seller, what their needs and wants are and trying to speak to that. Yeah. When we use, when we choose this strategy, right. It's
Speaker 2 00:35:52 About asking good questions, which you're very good at Cheryl.
Speaker 5 00:35:55 So great at asking questions.
Speaker 2 00:35:57 Uh, so let's talk about why this strategy is implemented. Um, it's designed, in my opinion, in in in part to get as many people through the property as possible. Yeah.
Speaker 5 00:36:09 Eyes on the prize.
Speaker 2 00:36:10 Exactly. It's also designed to try to get multiple offers
Speaker 5 00:36:15 So you can leverage. Correct.
Speaker 2 00:36:16 Yes. Things look very different if you're a seller and you have only one offer on your property, as soon as there's another offer in on your property, uh, all of a sudden that's leverage that competition. And because it's a blind bidding process, you know, you have no idea what the other person's offer is. Two offers changes the entire game.
Speaker 4 00:36:33 And we spoke about this directly in the buyer's part. As soon as a buyer's agent, let's say me sees that there are 10 offers on a property right away, we're advising our buyer, Mr. Buyer, let's go to the higher end of your budget. There's a lot of offers here. Let's,
Speaker 5 00:36:47 Or maybe it's not the higher end of your budget, but the higher end of the range that you think the properties market value. Yes. Because their budget might be higher, lower budget for
Speaker 4 00:36:54 That home. Sorry. Yes. Yeah.
Speaker 5 00:36:57 Um, human behavior as well. We have found, I think we all can agree if something is holding offers people flock to the same things for whatever reason, like there might be a equally beautiful house on the street that's listed for the price that this one is going to sell for. But for whatever reason, because we're holding offers, everyone flocks to that one house that is holding offers
Speaker 2 00:37:17 Fomo, everyone else likes. It's true. Yeah. Everyone else likes it. What's, what's so great about it? I want it now too.
Speaker 5 00:37:21 And how many times have we represented buyers who, when it comes to the offer night and there's only one offer, we're like, great. An opportunity and they're like, what's wrong with the house? Why aren't there other 15 other offers? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 00:37:31 I wanna talk about, uh, when holding offers doesn't work from the perspective of a seller and I guess the buyer, their perception, um, because there was a property I think a couple weeks back when we were talking about had something like 25 offers and it did not sell. We've
Speaker 5 00:37:46 Had this with our sellers. Correct.
Speaker 2 00:37:47 Correct. So, oh yes. Yeah. So it doesn't always work. And we have to explain that to our sellers as well
Speaker 5 00:37:53 And doesn't always work. Doesn't mean they didn't get offers. Right. Doesn't always work. Doesn't even mean they didn't get good offers. It just might not align with whatever it is that they're aiming for. Right.
Speaker 2 00:38:01 Right. So this happens quite often. Uh, a property will have its offer dates, um, offer date comes and goes, it does not sell. Who knows, maybe they got no offers, maybe they got 10 and the seller did not choose to work with any of them. What you'll very often happens is what we explain to our sellers is there is a plan B, if you don't get the results you want on your offer night, then you can always re-list again the next day, um, at your offers, any time price, which
Speaker 4 00:38:28 Means you could put an offer in any time
Speaker 2 00:38:29 <laugh> at that price for the most part.
Speaker 5 00:38:31 Generally Yes. And usually will you say that most realtors will build in a buffer for negotiation, but not always?
Speaker 2 00:38:39 Yes. Usually they'll, they'll list it, it higher than what they're selling. Willing
Speaker 4 00:38:43 To accept. It's like the other way too. They have were offers anytime, but it's still a little bit low hoping Yeah.
Speaker 5 00:38:46 Just to sell it quickly. Yeah. So Mr. And Mrs. Seller, your house is worth 1.1 million. We're gonna list it at 8 99. Often it comes and goes, they only get a million. They're like, yes, but we can't sell this house unless we get 1.1. We're like, okay. So the next day we list at 1, 1, 2, 5 because we know that someone might come in and try and negotiate a little bit with us.
Speaker 4 00:39:05 Also, very confusing from the perception of the general public. Yes. Not working with a realtor. Well, if they couldn't sell it at, I don't even remember once again what the list price was in
Speaker 5 00:39:12 8 99. 8 99 <laugh>.
Speaker 4 00:39:14 Why are they all of a sudden listed at this higher price? That makes no
Speaker 5 00:39:17 Sense. No sense. And you're like, that's why you need an expert working on your behalf. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:39:20 <laugh>. Yeah. We've had so many people just walk into some open houses of our and say there was a property down the street and it was listed at 8 99 and and it didn't sell and now they're 1.2 million. I don't get it. It's like, well would you like a buyer consultation <laugh>? So we can walk you through how it works and explain what the holding offer strategy here. We'll send you the link to our animated explainer video as well. So
Speaker 5 00:39:39 I made a note also when we were speaking about this, when we were deciding to talk about this in podcasts, that it's, you say it all the time, it's a case by case basis. Like every house is different. Totally. Every seller is different, every buyer is different. So even explaining it to that person that comes into the open house isn't as simple as saying they use this strategy and it didn't work. Like there could be a plethora of things in play. And that might be dependent on the street we're on or the neighborhood we're in, or the time of year it is. Or the type of market it is. Yeah. I'm exhausted.
Speaker 2 00:40:08 It's a hundred <laugh>.
Speaker 3 00:40:09 I know I was getting tired.
Speaker 2 00:40:11 A hundred different things. Yeah. That could be involved with any, with the sale of any property, uh, with multiple strategies, with multiple offers, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 5 00:40:18 And our changing market, and this is not since we've been realtors, it's just even in the last two years, like we had a spike and then we had a drop, and then we had a spike and then we had a drop all in the same years. Yeah. It's been all over the place. So you've constantly gotta be able to adapt and pivot and to understand where value lies and what's going on. You have to like finger on the pulse. It
Speaker 4 00:40:39 Moves fast. It changes fast. And even our statistics, you know, they come out and everybody hears about them in the Toronto Star monthly, but that's from,
Speaker 5 00:40:46 It takes the month before that we felt the month before that. That's right. Finger on the pulses.
Speaker 2 00:40:50 We call those the lagging indicators.
Speaker 5 00:40:52 But this is also why we, even if we don't have an active buyer, a seller in certain neighborhoods, why we watch what's going on every day? Why we go to see properties, even if we're not bringing a buyer with us, we wanna know what the inventory looks like. We wanna know how many offers we're on a property. We wanna know what Yeah. Age previews like, but in, in multiple areas, like we sell a lot of condos, we sell a lot of houses in the east end. We sell a lot of houses in the West end, buy and sell. So we, if we want to be able to guide and advise our clients accordingly, keeping our finger on the pulse is super duper important. Yes. Super d duper super, super
Speaker 3 00:41:22 Duper <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:41:24 Well that's the difference between working with a very active agent than you know, um, hiring your aunt, uh, who is from Thornhill. Why
Speaker 5 00:41:30 Do you have to be somebody
Speaker 2 00:41:31 Dance to buy a downtown condo? Well, you know, know what I mean?
Speaker 5 00:41:33 Maybe it's a cousin.
Speaker 2 00:41:34 Yeah. I want, I want to talk about just two other things before we wrap things up and we go over some takeaways. Uh, I wanna talk about one of Cheryl's pet peeves. Uh, we see it all the time. A property is listed at 9 99 and they get multiple offers and they sell for 1.3,
Speaker 5 00:41:49 Which is exactly the same. It's a person next door to them.
Speaker 2 00:41:52 Exactly. And then the agent who sold it, the listing agent puts that big red sign and the pat on the back sold over asking,
Speaker 5 00:42:00 And I wanna go with Sharpies on all of these signs and I'm sorry to all of our realtor friends out there to do this ain't special. <laugh>. Yeah. <laugh> and Right. You were special listed under market. Correct.
Speaker 2 00:42:13 And I think that that sign sold over asking is, uh, think misinformation because they were never asking for that price. Yeah. Correct. It's a marketing price also. I think it's not fair market value. I
Speaker 5 00:42:24 Think the general public is over it at this point. Yeah. Because our market is always so sold
Speaker 2 00:42:29 Over asking. Yeah. You know what? That that works well if you're in a buyer's market Yes. Where things are sitting on the market for sixty, ninety, a hundred and twenty days and uh, or
Speaker 5 00:42:38 It's not every house that's selling over.
Speaker 2 00:42:40 No, no. And so yeah, if you do get a property that's, uh, who knows, maybe you listed it well under market value and you know, 'cause you had no idea.
Speaker 5 00:42:47 Do you remember that one realtor friend of ours who, and I'm so sorry if you're listening to this, I won't call you out <laugh>, they listed something at 99, so 7 99. Yeah. And they sold it for 800 and they promoted the crap out of the sold over asking. And I was like, it literally sold a
Speaker 2 00:43:03 Thousand bucks. A thousand bucks over asking,
Speaker 5 00:43:05 Which really isn't sold over asking. It's just somebody rounded up. 'cause they were nice <laugh>. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:43:11 Um, yeah, <laugh>, uh, sorry whoever you are. Um, okay, let's talk about the final thing here. Um, bully offers. We could do a podcast on bully
Speaker 5 00:43:21 Offers. Yeah. Also don't, just as much as I don't like bidding more, I don't like the word
Speaker 2 00:43:25 Bully. The term
Speaker 5 00:43:26 Bully offering. Yeah. And you're right, this could be a full podcast on it own. I think it should be because I think it's an important part of the buyer's
Speaker 2 00:43:31 Journey. Yep. But we need to touch on it. Absolutely. So if you have a offer date, right. And you receive an offer prior to that offer date and you accept it, technically that's known as a preemptive offer. Somebody accepted an offer preemptively before the offer date, but it's become known as a bully offer. And, and, and this is why Cheryl
Speaker 5 00:43:53 No, I was gonna say to make it more confusing, not everybody is open. Not every seller is open to preemptive offers. Yeah. So you only see it on some properties. Again, only in the realtor remarks. So there's a whole other machine behind this. The
Speaker 2 00:44:05 Way, as a listing agent, we explain to a buyer agent if they're saying, are you open to a bully offer? Well, it's going to have to be a bully. It's gonna have to Are
Speaker 5 00:44:14 You open to a preemptive Please stop saying that. Well some. So
Speaker 2 00:44:16 We've had people say that to us.
Speaker 5 00:44:18 I know, but are you open to a preemptive offer? Yes. My sellers are open to a preemptive offer. And the whole reason why it's called a bully is because the point of this preemptive offer is to try to bully the sellers into accepting an early offer before their offer date.
Speaker 2 00:44:32 It's gotta have be good.
Speaker 4 00:44:33 They cannot refuse. Yes. It's so good that I had to give it to you now. I couldn't wait.
Speaker 5 00:44:39 Don't offer something. That is what they're expecting on offer night. Don't offer something that's a, a low end of market value. Don't offer something that's gonna have conditions and tie the property up because most sellers and sellers agents are gonna be like, this Is not, is not a preemptive offer, is we are giving you the opportunity by accepting preemptive offers to come in with something strong that will help us tie this up now and not have to wait till that offer date.
Speaker 2 00:45:02 And sometimes we've had our buyer clients, uh, in a position where they love the home. They don't want to risk losing it on the offer night. Yes. And, and so they're willing to go a little bit more in the high range of the spectrum of market value in order to secure the property.
Speaker 4 00:45:15 Or even over Yeah. Over what it could be perceived market value. Yeah. Simply to secure a home.
Speaker 5 00:45:20 Or on the flip side, you don't always like, it's say you don't pay that absorbent amount over the perceived market value. Again, it's like case by case basis. Maybe they haven't been very busy and let's preemptively get in there and try and get it because they're scared they will get no offers on offer night's. And we're
Speaker 4 00:45:36 Always creeping as buyers to see whether that listing has been busy.
Speaker 2 00:45:39 Of course. Yeah. Bully offers, we're gonna, sorry. Preemptive offers. We'll probably talk about that again in the other podcast. Upcoming. So, so that kind of wraps it up. I want to go over and just talk about maybe some takeaways, wrap it up, the things that we've talked about. Um, biggest takeaway for me, it's a not, it's not a bidding war. Okay. So hopefully you understand that the media that uses this term all the time is kind of, uh, misinformed and there's, they're, they're giving a bit of misinformation. Could
Speaker 5 00:46:08 Be
Speaker 2 00:46:09 Too. Oh, for sure. Bidding War Home sells for $300,000 over Asking Home
Speaker 5 00:46:13 Was meant to sell for $300,000 over that price.
Speaker 2 00:46:15 They were never asking for that price. This
Speaker 4 00:46:16 Is a marketing strategy. Yeah. Blah, blah,
Speaker 5 00:46:18 Blah.
Speaker 2 00:46:19 Basically these properties, uh, that sold, uh, in a bidding war sold for market value because they just created new market value. Market value is whatever a seller's willing to accept and a buyer's willing to, to spend. So that's the biggest one. Um, other takeaway is, yeah, it's confusing. Yeah. We, we know this is why we are doing this podcast. This is why we put together the animated explainer video.
Speaker 5 00:46:38 If this was real life real estate, you could probably do like dings every time we said confused or confusing <laugh>. Yeah,
Speaker 2 00:46:43 Dinging for sure. We've said it many times 'cause we know it's confusing. Yeah. If you ever have any questions whatsoever, feel free to reach out to us. All, all of our information, contact information is on the realestate podcast.ca.
Speaker 5 00:46:54 So I was going to say something similar that we know that this is confusing because it's one of your big takeaways and we know we covered a lot. However, there's so much more that we didn't cover in nuance. In context, in every single thing is a little bit different. And as you said, John, we are here to answer questions Absolutely.
Speaker 4 00:47:12 And on purpose. We haven't covered those things to really help just convey the concept
Speaker 5 00:47:17 And to make you's a concept confuse as po least confused as possible
Speaker 4 00:47:20 And then practice. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:47:21 Um, another takeaway is the holding offer strategy is usually most effective in a seller's market. And it's been used so often in Toronto because Toronto is usually in a seller's market where there's more demand than there is supply. Um, let's talk about the buyer. As a buyer, the biggest takeaway is ignore that list price. <laugh>.
Speaker 4 00:47:38 Please just ignore it. <laugh>,
Speaker 2 00:47:40 If it's too good to be true, it's because it's holding offers. They're never gonna accept that price.
Speaker 5 00:47:44 Most buyers, once they start to see a couple of sold prices, understand, you know, they do what you do, they ignore the list price. They know this kind of house is what their budget is and go from there. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 00:47:54 Um, as a seller, big takeaway, it doesn't always work. Yes. You know, and if it doesn't always
Speaker 5 00:47:59 Work even in a hot market. Correct.
Speaker 2 00:48:01 Yeah. There's a lot of, uh, things that could potentially go right or wrong with any property. Timing is everything. Timing's everything. Demand is everything. Pricing strategy is everything. You price just a little too close to that perceived market value. And buyers might think you're wanting way more than that.
Speaker 5 00:48:15 Or the next door neighbor's much nicer house came on the market at the same holding offers list.
Speaker 2 00:48:20 Yeah. And chops you right off at the ankles and you never know. You never know. Yeah. Uh, and another takeaway sold over asking is truly just a bunch of malarkey.
Speaker 5 00:48:29 Malarkey. We're gonna add that one to your, uh, your old time. Super
Speaker 4 00:48:32 Duper malarkey. Super,
Speaker 5 00:48:33 Super. D du super. I know, I know what they're dingdong. <laugh>.
Speaker 4 00:48:36 Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:48:36 <laugh>. So, you know, we have covered a lot. We've not covered everything. We really haven't. You'll have some questions, send 'em on over to us and we're gonna be covering a lot of variety of different topics, uh, with our podcast moving forward. Um, there's many moving parts with regards to every single real estate transaction, and we're here to guide you through that as your trusted realtors on the podcast. And also here for any guidance and advice that you may have.
Speaker 5 00:49:00 We also, we're gonna touch on the fact that there is new legislation to make things even more confusing. Oh God.
Speaker 2 00:49:05 Confusing. Yeah. This is gonna get messy.
Speaker 5 00:49:07 Yeah. So there's new legislation coming down that's gonna probably change a lot of what we talked about, but we are gonna save all of that for a, when it comes into play and b, a different podcast.
Speaker 2 00:49:16 Absolutely. Um, and Cheryl and I and Nicole have discussed this, we don't think it's gonna change a whole lot because,
Speaker 5 00:49:21 But it's going to make people, I think, more confused. It'll get messy, at least in the very beginning as people try to, realtors especially try to sort of navigate how to change everything. Alright,
Speaker 2 00:49:30 So that brings us to the end of the realestate podcast.ca, episode number two, holding Offers. It's not a bidding war. Um, but before we leave you, we wanna talk a bit about, uh, local business because we love to support local. Uh, and the local business we're gonna be talking about is Clayton's Customs. Um, do you wanna tell us a little bit about Stephanie Clayton?
Speaker 4 00:49:48 Um, this is a family that we met while we were door knocking in Leslieville, which is one of the areas that we do a lot of business on. On or in also <laugh>. Yeah, you are doing all of it. Um, lovely young girl. Yeah. Uh, you've spent a fair bit of time.
Speaker 2 00:50:01 School. School age. Yeah. So she's in high school and she started a merchandise company, uh, which is custom merch. She makes it in her own home screen, printing it. Uh, and it's e stander stuff. Uh, so if, uh, if she's starting to, to branch out to do different areas of Toronto, if you go to Facebook and check out clayton's customs.com, I know she's also working on a website. Uh, we're gonna do our best to maybe, uh, do a promotional video for her as well. So if you get the chance, uh, we're gonna be featuring her and a lot of other local businesses on our sister site, which is support local gta.com. And, uh, yeah.
Speaker 5 00:50:32 If I may add, it's not about, um, Stephanie, but it is about the fact that we do like to support local businesses and instead of doing something where, uh, we're having sponsorship of somebody, we instead would like to just promote absolutely some sort of local business. Every single time we do a podcast, we'll promote a different business and, uh, hopefully get you guys all out and about and
Speaker 2 00:50:52 Spread the word for some amazing, uh, local, uh, non-big box, uh, amazing companies. Mom and
Speaker 4 00:50:58 Pops and people. That's right. And we do a lot of that in the community. We go around, we promoted some chicken restaurants, we've promoted some breweries.
Speaker 5 00:51:04 She went to food. I know. Of course you went to Beer <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:51:08 Alright. Uh, so again, thanks so much for listening. If you enjoyed today's podcast and any of our other episodes, meaning our previous one, <laugh> <laugh>, don't forget to subscribe on Apple Podcast, Spotify and others, and also to our social media accounts. You can find us at jnc Toronto Group, on Instagram, on Facebook, and on YouTube. And most importantly, you can find out all about us and access all of our podcasts and additional content, including
[email protected]. Thanks again for listening, and we will see you next time.
Speaker 5 00:51:36 Bye.
Speaker 4 00:51:37 Thank you.
Speaker 0 00:51:40 You
Speaker 1 00:51:40 Have been listening to the realestate podcast.ca. Visit our website for more episodes and follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube at jnc Toronto Group.
